老司机传媒

For the Seventh-day Adventist church, one of the most relevant discussions surrounding women’s rights revolves around the General Conference’s continued insistence on the exclusion of women from pastoral ordination. During Women’s History Month, it becomes especially important to highlight the voices of women within that field. To that end, I sat down with seminary student Kayla Goodman to talk about her experience facing explicit discrimination within the church and much more. 

How long have you been involved in the Adventist ministerial field?

I’ve studied theology for the past six and a half years. My first sermon was back in 2014, so I’ve been preaching for at least ten years now.

In the pursuit of that calling, have you faced any struggles?

I still go into a lot of spaces where people won’t recognize my pastoral credentials. I would say, though, that some of the hardest things are the other women who are against you. You get used to the men who won’t listen to you, or will leave the sanctuary as you get up onstage to preach. Sure, those things sting. It’s more painful, though, when women close doors for you that you could have otherwise walked through. I feel like it demeans you even more, because women understand the struggle of what it’s like to be a woman in a man’s world. It’s harder because you almost feel like they should understand what you’re going through and be a support for you, rather than hinder you along the way. 

On that note, why do you continue pursuing ministry in a denomination that appears openly hostile toward your involvement in leadership in it? 

One of my daily prayers is, “Lord, when you’re ready to take me out, take me out.” It’s not that I like the opposition that I face, it’s not that I’m comfortable with people disliking me and my position. It’s because I know that there’s nothing else that I feel like I was created to do at this moment. I know that at some point, I might leave formal ministry, but right now, this is the place where I’m called to be. There’s so many people who have come up to me at different points, little girls even, coming up to me and saying, “Pastor Kayla, thank you for being who you are. I’ve always wanted to be a pastor and seeing you do it shows me that I can have the courage to do it one day, too.” If going through this hardship helps someone five to ten years from now have less of a hardship when they stand behind a pulpit, then it’s all worth it. It’s something that other people have done before me, because I haven’t gotten as harsh a treatment as other women before me, not to invalidate my experience.

What positive things in ministry have you experienced that you could only have experienced as a woman?

There’s definitely been so many rewarding moments, especially when I was serving in Micronesia as a chaplain and an associate pastor. In their culture, you can’t really talk to an elder of the opposite gender for a lot of things, so young women are left out of a lot of spiritual things because they’re not supposed to talk to a male about them. So the conversations that I was able to have were conversations that no one else had ever had with them. Also, I’ve had a lot of pioneer opportunities where I’ve walked into spaces as the first female chaplain, the first female associate pastor, the first female Bible teacher. That’s a lot of pressure, because you almost have to work harder to keep the respect of the title that you hold. At the same time, though, it’s offered opportunities to connect with people in a way that a man couldn’t.

Do you feel like because of the—I think it’s fair to say—explicit discrimination that women face in the Adventist church, do you feel like you’ve made a strong community with other women who are going through the same thing that you are?

I think we have. There’s been a recognition that we have to work harder than our male counterparts do in a lot of aspects: excellence is expected from females where mediocrity is accepted from males. We’ve had to do our best at all times, I feel, when we’re in ministry. It’s created some really strong bonds with those that we have gone through fires with, because we’re all under fire together, and we’re being refined by it, and in that refining, we’re growing stronger together.
 

Would you say that the positive interactions you’ve had with the younger generation have made your pursuit of ministry worth it?

I think they’ve made it worth it. I think seeing people accept Jesus has made it worth it. I think that the power I have in being a sensitive and vulnerable person has caused me to be more authentic and transparent than other people have been before me in the pulpit, and being able to relate to real life stories, makes it all worth it. 

Do you think the Adventist church’s stance on women’s ordination has affected your own personal conviction in your calling?

I think so, because I know that if the Adventist church as a whole wasn’t anti-women in ministry, I think we would have a lot more women pastors. That would be beautiful to see. But I also think that there are definitely times and spaces where I question if any of this is worth it, in the sense of, am I going to have to swim upstream the rest of my life, and do I have the strength and energy to do so?

What progress do you think Adventist ministry needs to make, especially in regard to the involvement of women in ministry?

I think that the church needs to recognize the validity of each person’s experience. In order for progress to be made, the people who have been complacent before need to actually start insisting on change. There have been many times when I have been blatantly disrespected, and people who I’ve thought were my friends in ministry have said nothing. And that’s painful, because they’re the people who, behind the scenes, say, “yeah, we’ll fight for you, yeah, we’ll do things for you,” but they’re completely comfortable in being complacent because they don’t want to step up for what is right and just. And that’s painful to see. I think we need a call to step out of complacency and start really fighting for people’s voices to be heard, and for a more Christ-centered community that recognizes the voice of all believers, and recognizes that the stories that we have are meant to be shared, and that we are supposed to step into spaces of leadership and ministry to help fulfill the wholeness of what the church is meant to be. 

Kayla, thanks so much for being willing to have this conversation with me. Is there anything you want to add?

If anyone is considering being a female in ministry and is too scared of the opposition they might face, I would just ask that you really take some time in consideration and surrender in prayer. 

Kayla Goodman is in her second year at the 老司机传媒 Seminary, studying for her Master of Divinity.